Dialogue Vanderbilt hosted Jonathan Greenblatt, Chief Executive Officer of the Anti-Defamation League, on March 18 in Central Library for a discussion with author and professor of African American and diaspora studies and ethics and society Michael Eric Dyson. This conversation, titled “Black-Jewish Relations: Past, Present and Future,” covered the topics of defining Jewish and Israeli identities, navigating community tensions and fostering empathy to an audience of approximately 100 students, faculty and community members.
Greenblatt previously served as Special Assistant to former President Barack Obama and director of the Office of Social Innovation and Civic Participation. Vanderbilt Hillel and ‘Dores for Israel previously hosted Greenblatt in February 2024 on Zoom for a conversation about antisemitism and anti-Zionism, to which members of Vanderbilt’s Jewish Voice for Peace staged a walkout protest. JVP also protested Greenblatt’s appearance this year by handing out flyers to attendees with statements condemning his views.
The talk was moderated by Rabbi Laurie Rice, who was introduced following opening remarks by Chancellor Daniel Diermeier. Diermeier discussed the complexity of the topic of Black-Jewish relations, and he said he saw tensions rise between these communities following the pro-Palestinian protests that occurred on college campuses last spring.
“As with any conflict that bears human suffering, it is not a conversation that we enter lightly, but willingly and ultimately in spirit, mutual respect and joint commitment to the values of the academy,” Diermeier said. “Today, universities are called, perhaps more than ever, to safeguard our campuses as places to converse, cooperate and coexist — to learn both from our differences and from what we share, and to prepare our students through discussions like these, to work together in taking on further challenges.”
Greenblatt expressed praise toward Diermeier for organizing the event.
“I think your leadership of this institution has been singular among all of the college administrators — what you do here at Vanderbilt is extraordinary,” Greenblatt said.
Protest by JVP
Members of JVP provided pamphlets to event attendees as they entered and exited Central Library for the discussion. The pamphlets alleged harm caused by the ADL to various communities and criticized the ADL’s response on X to the arrest of Palestinian activist and Columbia University graduate Mahmoud Khalil.
“What kind of ‘civil rights organization’ celebrates when a fascist government circumvents due process, curtails civil liberties and tries to silence activists fighting for a better future?” the pamphlet reads.
In a statement to The Hustler, JVP shared their motivation behind protesting the event. JVP referred to concerns about Greenblatt’s previous commitment to deliver a keynote speech at the International Conference on Combating Antisemitism from March 26-27, which Greenblatt has since withdrawn from.
“Greenblatt regularly defends and collaborates with white nationalists,” the statement reads. “For example, he was slammed by countless Jewish leaders, including the former ADL director, for his plan to attend a conference featuring a Swedish far-right party with neo-Nazi roots which wants to ban kosher meat in Sweden, and he constantly defends antisemitic actions by Elon Musk and other far-right supporters of Israel.”
JVP also discussed Greenblatt’s views about anti-Zionism.
“[Greenblatt’s] insistence that anti-Zionism is antisemitism relies on a distorted definition of Zionism that is wholly ungrounded in Israel’s history, and his feigned sympathy for the Palestinian victims of Israel’s genocide lacks any tangible pursuit of justice,” the statement reads. “His views are an insult to countless Jews who oppose apartheid and genocide, including some of the most celebrated Jewish and Israeli intellectuals of the last century. The sooner the world disregards the ADL as a legitimate authority on hate and prejudice, the sooner we can more effectively combat hate and prejudice.”
Black and Jewish experiences
Greenblatt began by answering Rice’s question about the interconnectedness of the Black and Jewish communities, saying he believes the alliance of these groups has led America to where it stands today.
“I think this country was built on the backs of slaves, and it’s an original sin for which America will always have to wrestle with,” Greenblatt said. “I think much of the Western world was built on the back of Jewish marginalization, which is a reality that it still needs to wrestle with. And yet, the challenge of the moment today is: how do we learn from our shared histories to really build a better future?”
Dyson said the Hebrew Bible informed his own identity as a Black religious figure. Both Dyson and Greenblatt emphasized the variety of beliefs and political ideologies among individuals in the Black and Jewish communities.
“For me, the Black-Jewish dialogue — frayed, tattered, in some senses, yet durable — comes as a result of a common identification with each other as we traverse these treacherous waters,” Dyson said. “And now, in this unspeakable moment of organized chaos or disorganized evil, it is incumbent upon us to call upon the resources to identify with those who are most vulnerable, and that’s what we do at our best.”
Acknowledging the suffering of others
Greenblatt spoke about the violence that occurred in Israel on Oct. 7, 2023 following Hamas’ invasion and said he believes many Jewish people are still struggling with the events of that day.
“All I know is that too many people have suffered. All I know is that the hostages need to come home,” Greenblatt said. “All I know is that everyone in that region deserves to live in dignity and peace, irrespective of where they pray or how they ethnically might identify.”
Dyson also condemned Hamas’ attacks, and he said he believes one thing Jewish and Black people understand about the other group is that they are similarly critical of suffering of any kind. Dyson discussed his desire to find ways to start conversations about the pain and hurt caused to any community.
“There is a powerful history of the need for Israel to be protected and for its peoples and citizens to be cherished,” Dyson said. “And there is a need for Palestinian people to be acknowledged as human beings.”
Greenblatt emphasized his position as a Zionist and acknowledged the violence endured by the people of Gaza since 2023.
“If you see the suffering of Palestinian children in Gaza and your heart doesn’t break, maybe you don’t have a heart,” Greenblatt said.
Dyson brought the conversation to a discussion of the actions taken by President Donald Trump’s administration during his first two months in office. He criticized Trump’s executive orders to roll back initiatives that promote diversity, equity and inclusion as a “project of white supremacy.”
“There is fast terror and slow terror. Fast terror [includes] bombs dropping, rapes, horrible attacks, assaults [and] bombing — the physical realities that induce a visceral reaction,” Dyson said. “Then there’s slow terror — the ways in which we monopolize legitimacy to deny it to citizens — the way in which we impose upon them regimes of horror and terror on the daily existence of these communities.”
Jewish versus Israeli identity
Rice then asked the speakers to respond to a question about how young people on college campuses can avoid perpetuating a narrative — which she believes to be false — that conflates being Jewish with Israeli identity.
“[Jewish people have] been moved out of the oppressed category and into the oppressor category,” Rice said. “I think for anybody that knows their Jewish history, that’s never happened. Since when did we fall into that category? [The category is] fairly simplistic and binary and not accurate.”
Dyson said he believes critiques of the Israeli government can exist without promoting antisemitism. He also called attention to prominent Jewish figures with racist views, saying he believes dissenting voices must be permitted in order to speak against similar individuals. Greenblatt disagreed partially with the first point, as he said he believes anti-Zionism to be antisemitic, although he said there are members of the government with whom he does not agree.
“There’s something different between criticizing the policies of the state of Israel and thinking that gives you license to stand in front of a synagogue and scream ‘free Palestine’ at people walking into services,” Greenblatt said.
Greenblatt also said he does not believe in “cancel culture,” and he urged attendees to consider the difference between hate speech and action.
“It is still fundamental that we recognize when speech becomes action, and action needs to have consequences, like when you seize the chancellor’s building,” Greenblatt said. “It is not free speech — that is not just sharing an idea. That’s not just a mean tweet. You show up, that’s fine — you should be ready to pay the price.”
Future conversations
Rice closed the conversation with a question about fostering empathy for others during times of increased polarization, and she shared a conversation she had with a Muslim student who asked her to define whether anti-Zionism was the same as antisemitism.
“I said [to the student], ‘No, I don’t believe that all anti-Zionism is antisemitism, but in the 45 minutes in which we’ve been in conversation together, I’ve apologized at least a half a dozen times for the atrocities and inconceivable hardship that Muslims and citizens in Gaza have endured, and you have not once said the words, I’m sorry to me,’” Rice said.
In response, Greenblatt encouraged attendees to put themselves “in other people’s shoes” and he expressed appreciation for his friendship with Dyson.
“What happens to him hurts me, and I know what happens to me hurts him, so I think we’re in this together, and that’s the only way we can get to the other side — by acknowledging that shared humanity,” Greenblatt said.
Dyson echoed this sentiment, although he called attention to the ADL’s lack of public comment on the allegedly antisemitic actions of businessman and head of the Department of Government Efficiency Elon Musk in contrast to the organization’s past condemnation of antisemitic statements made by artist Kanye West. The ADL has publicly defended Musk’s use of a hand gesture made during an inauguration event that has been compared to a Nazi salute, but they later criticized his use of jokes to mock the Holocaust. Dyson said he believes the ADL must contribute to holding those in power accountable for their actions in the face of worries about cancel culture.
“In order for empathy to be expressed, justice must prevail, and if justice must prevail, we must have the opportunity to, in a civilized fashion, articulate our beliefs, dreams, hopes and aspirations without the fear that cancel culture will undermine us, destroy us, obliterate and eviscerate us,” Dyson said.
A student who attended the event, speaking on the condition of anonymity out of fear of retribution, expressed appreciation for the event.
“It was, first of all, very entertaining and interesting,” the student said. “I definitely wish we had a little bit more time [with the speakers]. I feel like there were a lot of issues at hand that didn’t really get full closure, but I appreciated the passion on both sides and was definitely happy that I came.”
